if the screenwriters guild was so damn picky about cheese, they wouldn't have so many videos already made that could allegedly copied from...or is that the problem?...would a rejection letter really be all that bad then?...has it all been said and done before?...what?...what is the point?...
just one question is all i ask to be answered: how is calling something cheesy being constructive?
anxiously awaiting rationalizations,
gup
Dear Guppy Guy,
Far from me to defend critics---though perhaps I am one myself---but in my ancient past, I edited a "little literary" mag, B.C.----before computers, the web, and everything else. We waded each week through a TON of submissions, gleaning for a precious few to put in a twice annual anthology.
Some of the stuff we got was ghastly tripe----sing song, past adolescent angst, cliche, hackneyed---are-you-kidding-me sort of stuff written by people who were usually deeply in love--and wouldn't have known a poetic form if it bit them hard on the butt.
My staff was generally very good---they tried to find something positive to say in every instance---but sometimes we got punchy---particularly as a deadline loomed.
At that stage of the game, I would have been grateful for "cheesy" as a comment.
I know that when someone is in the throes of creative energy, all you want to do is submit that sucker---but I caution you to set things truly close to the heart aside for a few days---or maybe even months...then look at them again with a less jaundiced eye.
And I speak from painful experience. The night my father died, I penned a poem I was certain was the ultimate heir to Dylan Thomas' DO NOT GO GENTLE INTO THAT GOOD NIGHT. I kept it for a while, weeping each time I read it---God, it spoke to me!
So I submitted this poem to the mag I would later edit----and the staff sat there and ripped it to shreds before my horrified eyes and ears...and the horrible part was---they were right. It was trite and cliche, and spoke only to me---a personal poem---but not for public consumption. When your emotions are involved, it's difficult to be objective, no?
But I have always considered the blender a poetry place---have a good one Gup---and all the other stellar sorts who ramble here....
Hey Dee---a small smile for Kev, and a curtsey to Shady, Calypso, Madison, et al.
Oh and by the way Madison?
All things being...was sumptuous in it's tactile regard, and rich as a stained glass window in a french cathedral...thank you for it.
I have to say in some ways I agree with Gala on this one. Not as to the relative merits of Misti's screenplay (to be honest, I've been reading it as pieces-parts, not as a unified whole), but with some of the ideas of personal vs. public works.
It's an issue that cuts to the core of the Blender, actually, and my role as caretaker and self-appointed "editor" of the Digest. If you've read up on the history of the site, you'll know it's kind of grown into its role as open forum, and also that I was slow in passing *any* kind of judgement on the poems submitted to the blender. (If you go back to the transitional "Heart on Sleeve Journal" days, you'll see at first I just added neutral descriptive comments to every work as I coverted it by hand from e-mail, then I started assigning "Kirk Pick's" to some of them, and a few years ago the Digest arrived, pretty much in its current form.)
I've always said that many of the poems on the site "make up for in feeling what they might lack in art" and I stand by that. My goal with the front page picks is to recognize the poems that transcend the latter part of that. My commitment to providing a home for every poem that's submitted reflects the former. The entire ideal is complicated by my own limitations as both a poet and possibly even as an editor. I have to say "I'll do the best I can to edit and judge in a fair way, but at the end of the day, I'm paying for the website and it's my decision". Of course that doesn't reflect the close relationship I have with the community here, one that I cherish and will work to preserve.
The Blender Board is a lot like a poetry class I took in college. I've heard that there are poetry classes out there that are absolutely brutal, that the writers tear at each other's works. In contrast, that class was more like a cheerleading section, with criticism (even for some really overwrought stuff) having to be squeezed out. I think the Blender Board is a bit relentless in its positivity, but I'm not even one of the more active participants in it, so I leave it free to find its own course.
I'll make one final comment, and this thought may show up in Feb's Artist Review (the new issue will be here soon, honest!) In my more cynical moments, I'm tempted to write a script that will find out how poems aren't written in the first person. Part of that reflects my personal preference for prose, but it seems like much of the poetry I really admire doesn't have that "me talking to you" factor, or at least "me talking about how happy or sad I am". (People who are curious about 'how can I get on the frontpage' could do worse than to start writing stuff in the third person... it's at least more likely to catch my attention.)
Maybe I am way out of line here...I feel like a toddler trying to run with the Olympians (or at least high school track stars) when I even try to submitt here.
And the "relentless positivity" (Kirk's quote) is exactly what drew me to even submit to the Blender at all. I put in one piece about a year ago and by glory it made it to the front page and that buoyed my self esteem to new heights (I was just a baby writer)
I am 18. I haven't had any torrential love experiences. I just write what I feel. I thought this was a site where I could share some of what I felt (good or bad) with people who had been there and liked to write and maybe find a poetic "Kindred spirit". I was taken in by the warmth of the comments to each other. I am not in it for critical acclaim or even for a front page pick.
My point is when I called Misti's last couple of scenes "cheesy" I did it with a wink and a smile. After all I have produced enough cheese for my own Kraft factory I am sure. We all need criticism to grow...but maybe just criticism with a wink and a smile. I myself (at this point in my life) would be SCARRED by any Literary Guild's attack no matter how routine.
Respectfully,
Megan
hi i would like to say that i enjoy your site but would
like more detail to what you think is true love and sensuality
Rainin',
First of all, I hate to rain on YOUR parade, but you didn't inspire *Mister Maybe.* While I was typing in my comment, the inspiration just hit from left field and you really had nothing at all to do with it. Well, that's not entirely true. I guess you kind of inspired the last line. But I wrote the poem with someone else in mind, someone I know is definitely a male. I may be wacky, but I'll never write a love poem about someone I don't even know who posts negative comments about me on the Board. Character quirk, I guess.
Guppy,
Thank you for coming to my defense again! I really think it's odd that I've been inspiring so much negativity on the Board these past couple of months. I don't get it. I agree that rainin's criticism of my screenplay wasn't constructive. I have a friend who makes his living as a playwright and he's been reading my script and giving me advice that I can use. Not that I use most of it, even though I have a tremendous amount of respect for the guy...it's just that I'm stubborn and convinced that my way is the best way. Ha! Really, though, I don't mind advice or criticism. But it's hard to take "cheesy" too seriously.
*** I know I can come across as this hard as nails, arrogant brat on the Board at times, but a lot of the stuff I post here is meant to be funny. I'm just showing off for "Mister Maybe" and everybody else. A therapist would have a field day with the likes of me.
Now I must be off. I've got some more Monterrey Jack with jalapenos to submit. Bye.
Megs,
"The Negative....." This really touched me. I know too well that the imagined is worse than the reality.
Megs,
No one is olympian around here to my notice----but all writers have to start---and the blender is as cuddly place to start as any....don't worry about competing.
It's not a contest, as much as it's a community!
Gala---
Not that I AM trying to compete...just trying to come up with a good analogy for how daunted I feel at some of my juvenile works...compared to YOU (specificially...whose work I greatly admire) and others (the Gup...Dee...Misti...etc) Insecurity complex I guess?
Sorry if I come across wrong.
I personally think that although rainin' wasn't as constructive as he/she thought they where being, HOWEVER - I stand up and applaude him/her, no one (in as long as I have been here at the blender) - INCLUDING me, has had the balls to stand up and say, "this isn't up to your usual standard"... maybe by saying so, the person in question might re-work a piece and come up with something that IS up to their usual standard.
Misti is one of the most outspoken people here... seriously Misti you give out disrespect,you must be able take it.
Gala... Aren't you meant to be playing juror or something?
take care of your hearts.
dee
admire? my stuff?
Oh Meg, thank you....this old creaky lady has just had her day---maybe her week made!
And you dear have the spark...the heart fills in the rest.
hey blender peoples..
i am back, after quite a long break. i am nowhere near caught up on the work that has been submitted since my last visit, but i see that a lot of familiar names are still around.. and lots of new ones as well.
i'm looking forward to posting the work that i've written in the past few months.. and reading everyone else's submissions, too. :D
- d (geekgirl@canada.com)
And I did play juror---they didn't pick me. I'm feeling dejected....
Sad Gala....
Megs-
Insecurity seems integral to loving AND writing... At least that has been my experience. I am (more than) twice older than you and I still struggle against insecurities within. Trust in your poetic voice and it will serve you well.
Someone once told me that only morons feel really secure because they don't know any better. No one has control over the future, just control over themselves... Life is short. Give it your all...
-k
Dee,
Yes, I am outspoken, but I don't use this Board to attack people for posting stuff I don't think is up to standard. If I dish out any "abuse" or "disrespect" it's because I'm defending myself. I have dealt with the negativity I've been receiving from anonymous people on this Board with humor and I don't think I've been wringing my hands over any of it.
When I first started hanging out at this site I created a big stir when I started criticizing Tony's poems because people were going on and on about how wonderful his poetry was and I wasn't impressed. Since then, if I don't like a submission, I reserve criticism and just don't read the person's works.
I'd rather spend my energy on praise for truly great stuff, but if someone asks my opinion, they're gonna get it, and if someone attacks me out of the blue and for no reason whatsoever, you better believe I'm going to defend myself.
Hey Megs---
Just went through your last few pieces...girl, I wish I could have written that well even ten years ago.
Gala is ancient, remember. You are no baby writer---there's an old soul in the young skin....and enough talent to make em notice....and that's my opinion as a former editor. Anyone who suggests I'm just being nice is invited to kiss my old keister...and the line forms to the left!
Misti -
My point was meant to be the part about work "being up to usual standard" of course if I don't like someones usual style I'd not ever try and change their style.
I personally think you are attacked because you are so outspoken, those on the board that comment when they feel fit are very rarely attacked.
I wasn't attacking you in my comment.. just calling it as I see it.
dee
deevaa = ditz.
that was meant to read "those on the board that comment ONLY OCCASIONALLY when they feel fit are very rarely attacked."
its early morning here and I've not had coffee!! Can ya tell?
dee
PS... Megs I really enjoyed "the way to a mans heart" (hmmm I am not sure thats what it is called) I meant to comment yesterday however I got sidetracked at work... and ditto what kev and gala have said, the charm about being an artist of any form is never being totally happy with a work!
I've been following "Candy Before Bedtime", and I've also been following the commments made about it for the past few days. I've submitted some to the Blender, but I haven't been around for long, so my comments may not hold as much merit as the ones made by others, but I still feel I should give an "outsiders" opinion, in a sense :)
I've found that this place is for "positive reinforcement" as well as criticism. There are usually great reviews on some of the submissions. There are also critics too.
I think romance doesn't have to be "cheesy", you don't have to have cheesiness to have romance. Romance can be as original as you want it to be. Romance to me is far from cheesy, but this is my opinion, and others may see it differently. That is why this is such a great site! You don't have everyone applauding everyone else for their works all the time. If you did, would there really be any point in posting your work? I do it to show my feelings, thinking that someone out there might possibly feel the same as I do, but I also do it in order to find out how I can make myself better as a writer. I don't want wonderful comments all the time. Then I would feel like everyone wasn't being realistic. I know I write stuff that is far from "great" sometimes. And I appreciate people who have enough guts to be different among a group. I'm not saying everyone else who's had great comments about "Candy Before Bedtime" have been lying or anything, I just think Rainin' expressed his/her comment, even though it was possible he/she would get slammed for it. I just think comments should be accepted and, if they're not liked, discarded. You can't expect positive comments or even "constructive" criticism all the time. In a society like ours, not everyone is that nice.
But I will personally say that I've just read the last three scenes of "Candy Before Bedtime" that were submitted, and I think Misti has done an excellent job with them. Keep it up! Write what love is for you, not for anyone else's standards. You don't have to like the criticism you get for it. Just don't expect anyone to not express their opinion. That's what this forum's for, if I'm not mistaken.
btw saying that one can stand up for ones self and fight your own battle is praise... I admire those that can, without losing the point and getting personal.
enough from me.. gotta go put the plants back in the garden that my son just dug up while I was online!!! hehe.. gotta love him.
Dee,
I understand where you're coming from. Sometimes I wonder if I should "tone it down" but then I think,"Nah!" I was without a voice for far too long. Now that I've found my voice, I just want to sing all the time. I don't want to shout. But sometimes I have to.
Tigerlover,
Thank you. I understand where you're coming from, too. But really, I don't equate courage with posting critical comments on the Internet. You wanna know what REALLY takes a big pair of cojones? Poetry slams. You can't hide behind anonymity at one of those babies.
Misti - sometimes when the same song is sung over and over, people get tired of it.
But if the same song was sung over various stations then no-one would tire of it and be left hmmm-ing the tune.
LG
LG,
Little God? Leering Geek? Lewd Greek? Loose Goose?
Loony Goony? Lucid Guru?
I feel like my song changes everyday. But this is the only station you'll ever hear it on 'cause fame isn't my goal.
EBULLIENCE, People, it's All About EBULLIENCE!!!!!!!!!
I don't think I'm getting my point across, but I'll keep trying...
I agree. There is a right way and a wrong way to "critique" someone's work. I don't encourage people who go about it the wrong way. I think Rainin' was right in expressing his/her opinion, but I do think it could've been done in a much more tasteful way. It's good to express your opinion about someone's work, but you can do it in a better way. Unfortunately, some people don't realize that. All I can say is, just ignore it: this is your work and you do with it what you want. I'll continue reading. And you're right about the poetry slams!
Sometimes the best, harshest, and most honest critic is yourself :)
Tigerlover,
Thanks for the encouragement! Here are some stars for you. * * * * * * * * * * * and some EBULLIENCE, my favorite word and the only way to live! I've got EBULLIENCE painted on the receiver of my rotary phone in red nail polish.
I'm going to write some more scenes this weekend and then submit them on Monday. I'm looking forward to writing the party scene(s). Nothin' like livin' vicariously through your characters. Ha!
huh...people can say what they want...and they are...look at the board...ha...
people can say what they want...and it usually happens that when something is criticized, people respond to it...by saying what they want...
and so it goes...cause and effect...
everyone is free to say what they want, but it doesn't mean that anyone has to agree with them...or be quiet about it...
so...this is all freedom of speech...nobody should feel like they don't have a right to say what they want...to voice an opinion...others will probably do the same
d - wow.. way to go with "unfinished symphony"
Love it. (and who could forget you!!! I still have one of your poems pasted in my notepad!)
dee
Have never done a poetry slam---however they used to have a great poet's bar in Phillie---may still be there, for all I know.
On open mike night, if the regulars (who tended to be hard drinking men with irish names) liked your work they applauded. If they did not---whether you were young or old,
male or female---they threw beer bottles at your head. And some of them were deadly aims.
I will modestly state that I never had to dodge a bottle. Not sure how a "slam" stacks up to that sort of "critique."
Galadrial
Gala - you never had to dodge a bottle cause they thought you where hot though, not cause of the quality of your work. (not saying that your poetry doesn't rock though.)
<dashes off dodging bottles>
Dee---
You are so dead! Take that! And That!
Oh you rhymes with witch!
How dare you suggest that I was so damned sexy, they missed the quality of----wait a minute...rethinking this...
Whatever you like Dee!
One way or the other---no concussions!
Gala the Giddy
D-
Unfinished Symphony- LOVE IT- You said what I didn't even know I was thinking for awhile now.
<sigh>