From: the guppy<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

me aka niki---i didn't mean to sound pissed off...really...i was just giving an opinion and some reasons for it...it wasn't meant to be an attack, just an argument...i know that lots of people here write about real-life situations...love letters, cathartic rants, etc...while a popular vote might be kinda cool, it would be a shame if someone felt sub-par because they weren't voted for...people might feel judged on an emotional level...which might make them less likely to contribute in the future...<BR>
<BR>
by the way...you're cool with me...really sorry if you felt i was attacking you<BR>
<BR>
gup
<HR>
From: the guppy<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

gala hit the nail on the multiple heads (hydranail?)...just which nail and which heads you're wondering?...well, that we all have different styles...<BR>
<BR>
i talked to a guy once that was honestly arguing about who was the better author between walt whitman and herman melville...it's comparing apples to orangutans...i didn't get into the argument much besides saying that...<BR>
<BR>
there are so many people here that i could never write like...<BR>
<BR>
i'm going to hire terry and gala to write my proposal speech (if i ever need it)<BR>
<BR>
dee and kevin to coauthor my memoirs of lives i've not lived<BR>
<BR>
riggs and misti to write my eulogy in that softcore cynical/ironic style<BR>
<BR>
sarah and bk to handle the rebirth speech if that ever comes to pass...<BR>
<BR>
i'm not leaving people out...i'm just running out of life's moments...ha...<BR>
<BR>
anyway...you get my point<BR>
<BR>
gup
<HR>
From: Devin<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Gala, Hiya, do ya miss me? *hugs* ...and regards to the rest of the community also.  I've been a very busy guy with some other writing projects and as soon as things slow down and my editor leaves me alone for two minutes, I will be submitting some poetry works again.  I am however, always in the shawdows appreciating each of you.<BR>
<BR>
-devin
<HR>
From: devin<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

shawdows?..*sigh* my fingers are numb.<BR>
<BR>
-dev
<HR>
From: deevaa<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

*throws a pillow at Devin* Only Gala get hugs? you bum.<BR>

<HR>
From: Devin<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

*ducks* oops, sorry Dee, *grabs her tight and *smooooooooooch*  Miss me too?<BR>
<BR>

<HR>
From: deevaa<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

*scowls over the pillow*<BR>
no. <BR>
*pout*
<HR>
From: dee<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

*stomps out slaming the door*
<HR>
From: Galadrial<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

<BR>
<BR>
Good grief------<BR>
<BR>
            Poor old Gala is losing it...I meant to mention our beloved Jack---I swore I typed him...(sigh)Yes Jack, auntie Gala loves your work too...<BR>
<BR>
            And Dee? I didn't do anything! Honest. I just mentioned the man's name---didn't even wink! Sheesh....<BR>
<BR>
                                             GALA
<HR>
From: me aka niki<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

 2 Guppy~ thank you for your comments and opinions<BR>
Maybe your right though..<BR>
It was just a suggestion you know, al off a sudden it struck me so I just put it down<BR>
But it is not an idea well liked soo...<BR>
anyway I got a lot on my mind these days and I'm not thinking straight so forgive me for the talking Im doing without thinking first...<BR>
Love peace and Chickengrease<BR>
Me
<HR>
From: me aka niki<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

 2 Silent Voice~ Yes What did you mean with that last sentence?<BR>
Just like Elaina Said We are not the same person<BR>
We don't even know each other<BR>
And 2 Elaina~ what do you mean with that's one of the most incredible compliments you've ever had?<BR>
<BR>
Oh yeah and I noticed that people are calling the voting contest<BR>
A popularity contest, maybe I was missunderstood<BR>
But it's NOT a popularity contest<BR>
where the most popular, well liked person get's voted<BR>
Just somewhere where the whole blender and everyone that's passing by could vote for there favorite poem<BR>
In that sense you could call it a popularity contest but I didn't have that word in mind! <BR>
But thx everyone for your opinions!!<BR>
Love peace and chickengrease!<BR>
Me
<HR>
From: Megs  *or someone like her...only a little less so*<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Ok every time I say I am going to be REALLY attentive to writing/Blender folks/creative pursuits...life kicks my ass to show me not to make plans.<BR>
Here is the latest (if anyone cares...Kev? Gala?)<BR>
Looked v.much forward to Dec. 29th for ages.  Planned on romantic post-Christmas week with long distance love of my life before returning to the Spring Semester grind.<BR>
Unfortunately on Dec 27th fate intervened and David was in a pretty terrible car accident.  His brother was driving and well...the brother didn't make it.  *sigh*  David was pretty critical for a couple days and suffered more broken bones than any one human being needs in a life time.  Not to mention the loss of his brother...<BR>
So I am down here now and it looks like I am not returning to WV anytime soon.  David needs a round the clock attendee right now...and I fit the bill *wry grin*<BR>
Soooooooooo...what I need from you all is emails and prayers (I think I forgot how...?) and just out of curiousity any Blenderites hail from Florida?<BR>
Sorry to take up so much space but I have limited time and scattered thoughts.  Lots of life changing moments in one week y'know?<BR>
<BR>
*sorely lonely and frightened*<BR>
Megs
<HR>
From: Galadrial<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

<BR>
<BR>
Hey troops....<BR>
<BR>
             I realize that Meg is my FGK, and I am getting some phone cards and goodies together---Fairy Godmothers give great Care Package...but for those of you who know her, please send her all the moral support you can. This is a toughie...<BR>
<BR>
             Meg Baby? Goodies on the way---along with my prayers. Talk to you later girl....<BR>
<BR>
                                      FGM Gala,<BR>
                                      Front and center...
<HR>
From: me aka niki<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

2 megs- I'm so sorry to hear the bad news<BR>
I hope that everything will onyl get better from now on<BR>
My prayersto you<BR>
Good luck
<HR>
From: kevin urenda<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

My dear Megs, <BR>
you know in your heart of hearts that I care -- a great deal...<BR>
<BR>
Calling on a little known (only because I don't like to talk about it) fact of my history, I personally know almost exactly how you feel.  I almost lost my wife when my son was barely fifteen months old...  It took an entire week in ICU and a major surgery thrown in for good measure to bring her through.  Even though she left the hospital early (against doctors' advice) those were nine of the darkest days of my life.  I would not wish that kind of experience on anyone...  <BR>
<BR>
I am hoping that I'll be able to keep up my correspondence more in the coming months, so look forward to some words of encouragement.  That, and anything else I can do for a dear friend, I will...<BR>
<BR>
k
<HR>
From: deevaa<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Gala, (and or Megs if you are about checking the board) <BR>
<BR>
can you please post Megs LATEST email address.... the one I have just bounced back at me ... have a funny feeling its only the 2nd to last one... I'm sure that I'm not the only one who has had trouble keeping up with Megs multiple email identities.<BR>
<BR>
dee
<HR>
From: Kirk, Blender-Keeper<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Megs, our hearts go out to you.  It's been a long while since I received news as horrendous as that must've been for you.<BR>
<BR>
Deevaa, I dunno, I kind of like "a splendour". It has a neat hurky-jerky kind of rhythm, and while it sounds a little idealized, and some of the euphamisms are a little off, it has some good lines, I like the mood of "And his hands, oh his hands".  <BR>
<BR>
I think it worked better than the erotic poems that talk too much about nipples. Not that I don't like nipples. <BR>
<BR>
Not that i have any plans to change the front page pick system anytime soon, but I've brainstormed about alternate ways of picking.  For a while I was thinking of an "inner council" type thing, seeded with a few people I think of as Blender stalwarts, and with that group voting in new members, and their votes being tabulated to make the picks. But given some of the conversation here lately, that would probably tend to make things a little too in-groupy.<BR>
<BR>
Heh. One wacky idea would be to have a different person make the front page picks each month, sort of a guest editor selected from the regulars here.  <BR>
<BR>
Hmmm.  I guess for now we're stuck with big ol' (well less big, I lost 4 1/2 lbs last week) arbitrary me.  
<HR>
From: Kirk, Blender-Keeper<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

And for the record, I wish we had more criticism along the lines of the exchange Deevaa and I had.  This board has trouble giving criticism, and Dee did try to couch it in a friendly way.
<HR>
From: deevaa<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

guess I must have a thing for nipples -- was told by a gallery owner in Rochester she couldn't hang some of my work because of the nipples. We did a tally and out of the 5 paintings I had ready to hang there as a total of 7 nipples.  Four of the five works went up though... so guess its not all bad.<BR>
<BR>
I'll consider myself told.<BR>
<BR>
dee
<HR>
From: deevaa (yes me again)<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Me AKA Niki mailed me, explaining she didn't really care what anyone else thought of her poem, because she just writes for herself, but that she likes it when people comment on her work and tell her that they like it.<BR>
<BR>
I guess no one likes being told that someone thinks that their work could be better,  my personal feeling is, that if post your poetry in a public forum then you have to expect comments, and you have to be able to take the good with the bad, and a bad comment is after all only one persons voice.<BR>
<BR>
My personal opinion is that if you post your poetry in a public forum you are NOT only writing ONLY for yourself.<BR>
<BR>
I also think even if you write directly into the 'New Subs' box, which I am known to do, it isn't a bad thing to run a spell check over your work, it takes two seconds,  a spelling mistake every now and again isn't a problem, but poetry riddled with mistakes, there is no excuse.<BR>
<BR>
dee<BR>
<BR>
<BR>

<HR>
From: B.K.<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Megs: My goodness woman, your luck is about as good as mine was this xmas, my heart goes out to you. It's good that you can be there for him. My prayers are with you!<BR>
<BR>
bk<BR>
<BR>
  
<HR>
From: B.K. (again)<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Deevaa: I think one of the most erotic parts of your wonderful paintings are the beautiful round breasts with great nipples. Leaving them off would be like painting a hand without fingers.  <BR>
<BR>
I also agree with you about spell check, though I have flubbed myself there at times. But I do try, most of the time. While we are complaining here, I hate it when people use all caps on a poem. Do they realize it's like being screamed at. Making your point is one thing, but screaming the whole poem...Oh my.<BR>
<BR>
Kirk: A lot of sites have guidelines for what is expected of the poets that post to their sites. Maybe a line or two somewere on the page might help. But actually this board works if people use it.<BR>
<BR>
bk
<HR>
From: bk (not again)<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Deevaa: Ok, then what if when you give a criticism, you also give them an example of what it might sound like if they used other words. Then maybe, the light bulb might go on in their head, instead of the ego flying out of wack. When someone does that for me I am ever so grateful, unless I completely disagree, perhaps they did not see the point I was making, then I would come back at you...LOL<BR>
<BR>
bk
<HR>
From: Kirk, Blender-Keeper<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

BK:<BR>
I dunno, people don't read much in terms of guidelines.  I'm not sure what you're suggesting though, is it in terms of requesting people use spellcheck? I figure people will use the amount of care/proofreading they see fit, realizing that it corresponds to how they're representing themselves on the site.  At one point I was looking at this one integrated spellcheck site, but I'm not sure if it would work well with the backend I now have.  <BR>
<BR>
Or were you thinking of some other content guidelines?
<HR>
From: deevaa<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

I also paint hands with no fingers, and  faces with only one eye.... maybe my view of the world is distorted.<BR>
<BR>
dee
<HR>
From: Galadrial<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

<BR>
<BR>
Ahem...Kirk? Dee?<BR>
<BR>
        It seems to me we have young folks---yes as young as 15 who not only post here----but are Blender regs...and if there is a more tender, gentle, or cuddly place on the planet to post, I don't know where it is. Dee has been not only a regular contributor , but a source of encouragement to a good many....including myself as a newbie.<BR>
<BR>
        I maintain---there is big difference between the public and private poem---a difference Jenna seems to have grasped neatly...and it is wise to keep private anything that might dent your ego if it is not instantly welcomed.<BR>
Posters, please...when you put it out there, you are implicitly and explicitly requesting comment. No matter how old you are, or what your background. And a poem must stand on it's own...is the point to write a good poem---or a just a good poem for a fifteen year old? The way you improve is to stretch...and sometimes a stretch hurts. <BR>
<BR>
           In my humble opinion, Dee was offering good advice...with kind intention. I don't think she should get smacked down for it...especially when we have gotten flack for being too darn wishy washy in our critique....<BR>
<BR>
           Just my two cents.....<BR>
<BR>
                                           Gala
<HR>
From: B.K.<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Kirk: Let me think about that one a bit. I don't think you should put spell check here. That's up to us to figure out. I would though like the ability to go back in and clean up the blunders I make sometimes going to fast or not paying attention. How could we do that? It's like you hit send and then look and freak..knowing that you just made an error. An edit feature perhaps that would only work on our own poem. Is that possible?<BR>
<BR>
Deevaa: No, that's not distored at all. Many male dolls are without a hint of penis as well...LOL  Just a matter of personal choice, I suppose.
<HR>
From: Kirk<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

I'm not sure how or where this got so contentious.<BR>
<BR>
The Blender Board is what the people here choose to make it. When I post here, I mean to be just one of the crowd-- to that end I think I might stop using my "Blender-Keeper title" except when I'm on 'official business'.  <BR>
<BR>
And not only am I one of the crowd, I'm not even one of the more active ones of the crowd, Board-wise.  So my opinion about more criticism or less criticism on the Board should be weighed taking that into account.  My Groundskeeper role not withstanding.
<HR>
From: B.K. <BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Gala: This is heaven compared to the critiques given in some sites, wow, I have seen some dooseys and some wretched name calling..lol lol and I am on Deevaas side completely. <BR>
<BR>
bk
<HR>
From: Elaina<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

me aka niki~ I simply meant you are an amazing writter to be compared to you is a great compliment to think someone could mistake your work for mine, also considering our writting approaches are completly different. <BR>
<BR>
xoxo<BR>
elaina
<HR>
From: me aka niki<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

*~*2 Kirk~ Thx<BR>
<BR>
*~*Yes I did mail Deevaa And it's true that I write for myself<BR>
But I also said thx for the advice<BR>
And I guess that I can only learn from it...<BR>
So I did take your comment in consideration.. And It's not that I don't want to hear it and only want to hear the comments that tell me my work is nice<BR>
It's true that I said That when people compliment me it makes me smile and happy<BR>
But who doesn't? And that does not mean that I only want to hear the good news<BR>
The good news makes me smile the bad teaches me something<BR>
But I still write for myself to deal with my feelings <BR>
regardless of good or bad news<BR>
And for the spellcheck  deevaa could you explain to me how it works?, because I don't know it<BR>
And yes people sorry for my mistakes but like I told deevaa English it not my first language...it's dutch=) So I speak it but don't mind the errors! hehe sorry!!<BR>
*~* BK yeah you have a good point <BR>
people (ME) would learn alot then<BR>
*~*And Gala I don't but were you talking about me with the 15 year old thing?<BR>
So that was that for now<BR>
Deevaa could you pls mail me back and answer some of my questions etc<BR>
thank you<BR>
<BR>
Me
<HR>
From: Elaina<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

I have a few more things to say<BR>
1: I think that spell check would be a good idea, not only here on the board but also on the submissions page, perhaps it is our responsibility to make sure the spelling is correct, but I know that when I'm writing a heart-felt on the moment poem I rarely check for spelling. (just a thought)<BR>
2: I don't think critisim is a bad thing as long as it is done politely, and clear.  Everyones opionions are different, and I enjoy seeing how other react to my work, and if it hurts your feelings just remember if you are writing for you than nothing else matters.<BR>
3: Everyone here has wonderful thoughts and poetry, that's why I come here faithfully everyday at least 3 times a day.  It always makes me feel better and I don't like how there is so much disagreeing going on, as I said before everyone has different opinion and that's how we grow and learn.<BR>
xoxo<BR>
elaina<BR>

<HR>
From: B.K.<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Well Niki, that explains quite a lot. Glad you came back<BR>
and explained. Good going.<BR>
<BR>
SuzyQ: Wow, one good read after another. Very thought provoking. Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Katiana: I enjoyed 'Revelations' and 'My Heart Keeps Loving You.' Nice work
<HR>
From: Gala<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

<BR>
<BR>
Actually no dear....I was not...Jenna is fifteen if I'm not mistaken...and I don't think of her as a good fifteen year old poet---but a good poet.<BR>
<BR>
I told a story here once...back when I first got to college, I was very full of myself---my graduating class had elected me Class Writer---which I thought was very hot stuff. I carried with me a "sacred poem"---something I thought was the American Answer to Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night. I had treasured that poem for a year. I had written not just the night my father had died---but the hour he died in...very heavy...and very personal.<BR>
<BR>
When I found out the college had a literary mag, I RAN to their first meeting---submitting my wonderful powerful opus. They retyped all the submissions, and considered them without the author's name on them. So I sat there---waiting to hear how wonderful , how powerful, how touchingly perfect my final tribute to my dad was...did I mention that I was all of seventeen at the time?<BR>
<BR>
And they started.....HACKNEYED...CLICHE...TYPICAL....and worst of all BORING...I left that meeting in tears, determined never to return...but I had to pass beneath the window where the meeting was held---And I chanced to hear the editors talking...<BR>
<BR>
"Think we'll ever see Little Miss Poet Laureate again?" one asked..<BR>
<BR>
 "Nah." she's a wuss ass."<BR>
<BR>
      Well Nikki dear...that dried those tears but fast. I resolved to not only return---but to edit that magazine myself someday, and make sure that subs were treated with dignity and respect. We still critiqued work---and there was good, and there was bad...but no one ever left my meetings in tears because my staff had been cruel. And yes Nikki I edited that Magazine, named Avant for a year.<BR>
<BR>
      Don't stop writing---and don't stop stretching. Your stuff has promise. And that's enough to hold me for this month i think....<BR>
<BR>
                                         Gala
<HR>
From: scqueen<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Kirk ~ One thing I really enjoy are the book reviews that you frequently post in the digest. I also enjoy from your personal site, that you often post what you are reading. Instead of a guest host for the entire digest, how about people submitting reviews or reading suggestions and you choosing some to post? I can't imagine a writer who doesn't love to read, and I often want to pass on titles that are inspirational to me but never post them on the board, not sure if it would be appropriate? <BR>
<BR>
<BR>

<HR>
From: Angel<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

I think the best critiquing is that which you do yourself by reading the works of others that clearly are superior to your own. I find myself doing this all the time, hoping by reading their wonderful works that I might learn more expressive and fresher ways to write. And, I do believe that my writing has improved somewhat, though not nearly as much as I would like. I think my tender ego could stand a little  critique from those I know who are trying to help me and I would actually appreciate the free education:) We all know that there are some here who are much more educated in (Gala...my God, she teaches poetry!) or more dedicated to the written word (Kevin...I've never seen a man more in love with words!) than others, so there should never be a competitive or slamming type atmosphere. I am all for an honest but gentle form of critiquing. I would like a little bit of all of you to rub off on me;)
<HR>
From: scqueen<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Angel ~ Amen.<BR>
<BR>
SusieQ ~ 'Later' was beautiful and thought provoking.<BR>
<BR>
Michael (all you can bee)~ 'Drone' - I have read this 3 times today and am still smiling :-) Maybe I'm partial to the word 'queen'...
<HR>
From: Ali<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Elaina~ Hey, dearie...I haven't been around for a few days...I've been ill...I wanted to say thanks for what you said about the last two poems I wrote...glad you like them.<BR>
<BR>
Aaron~ You're making me blush, with all those sweet things you're saying...I'm happy you liked those poems. =)<BR>
                    Love and Light, Ali
<HR>
From: terry<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Hi all,<BR>
I've been a bit under the weather so I haven't posted or commented any in a few days. But I'd like to jump into the conversation on critiquing the work posted here.<BR>
<BR>
I agree with Dee and Gala pretty much completely. Dee did not attack anyone, what she did is started a conversation about a single post here that has expanded to a general discussion. That is a very good thing imho. I for one, as has been stated by others, write for myself as a form of expression/creation. By posting that writing here i am offering it to others to enjoy, feel something I felt, and yes, offer comments both good and bad. Frankly I would not have lasted long on this Board had I not learned from the superb writing of what I consider the Blender Masters. Kevin, Gala, guppy, Madison, Toklas, Nikki, Devin, and a few others ( I knew better than start naming names.lol ). And yes,  I received very gentle criticism along the way, usually via email. But the one thing this forum has long lacked, is a genuine attempt at helping writers improve proactively, which is exactly what Dee attempted to do. <BR>
<BR>
I for one am not so sensitive that I would perceive any criticism as an attack.....after all, what motive would exist for such attacks? If the Blender is to keep growing and helping writers, both old and new improve their craft, this is one area that right now is lacking. Kirk was right to say that more critical exchanges are needed here. It is onlt the truth. But we as writers must be adult enough to know all our work is not polished perfect the way we would like. But I'd really like to know when a reader sees a part of my posts they can help improve. I need that to grow...<BR>
<BR>
My two cents,<BR>
terry
<HR>
From: terry<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Megs,<BR>
<BR>
Like others i have lost track of your current email addy. But know that you and yours are in my thoughts and prayers. Don't forget to take care of yourself in this hard time too.<BR>
<BR>
terry
<HR>
From: Elaina<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Ali~ I'm sorry you've been sick, I hope you feel better soon so you can get back to writing your wonderful poems.<BR>
<BR>
xoxo<BR>
elaina
<HR>
From: Kirk (in his Blender-Keeper hat)<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

scqueen-- being an intensely lazy Blender-Keeper, I'd welcome the idea of posting Guest Reviews along with Guest Rambles.  Movies, books, etc.  The work reviewed should have a reasonably distinct romantic theme.  Excerpts for written work are welcome, as long as they are brief enough to fall under fair use but long enough to get a feel for what the work is about. And personal digressions are welcome as long as they don't get too too out of hand.  <BR>
<BR>
Accepted reviews will get placed in the (coveted?) Features section of that month's Digest.  
<HR>
From: Kirk (No Hat)<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Gala-- one thing that's funny is I've never been (mis?)fortunate enough to have a really critical reading group.  My mom talks about her time at U.Mass, she had a poetry group that would rip each other to sheds, but the one at Tufts had a hard time mustering a significant criticism, even for one or two members who I think everyone there thought wrote the most awful stuff...
<HR>
From: Michael (prayers)<BR>
Date: 8 January 2001<P>

Megs ~ Prayers and good karmic thoughts your way. I hope he recovers soon. It's such a scary thing to think you might lose someone. If you have an e-mail address handy, let me know?<BR>
<BR>

<HR>