I have a question...to you what consitutes a good poem?
Okay Blue,
My writing mentor in college used to say that a good poem makes you say "ahhhhhhhh" when you're done reading it. Poetry is an elegant, eloquent form of communication---the fine line for me is communicating univeral thought or feeling without:
1. Using cliches---find a "fresh" way to say something we're all felt, or understand.
2. Using forced language...and by this, i mean either forcing a rhyme---or using words you don't normally employ in your speech...
3. Total free flow consciousness...no attempt at making it into a poem---just "oh my thoughts are poetry..." ick.
I guess this is more what good poetry is not, rather than what it is...but it's a start. Just my two cents....
Gala
cnewlife~ I liked you poem very much...It was heartbreaking, dearie...(((HUGS))...Keep posting??
Love and light, Ali
~*~Blue sky to your clouds~*~
Emily Dickinson has always been someone that I aspired to be and looked up to. She was one of the first poets to break the formal rules of poetry, forgetting capital letters, using no titles, awkward spacing, and no punctuation. In her mid thirties, she sent her poetry to a mentor of hers. When he told her to fix her technicalities, she said this:
The only good poetry is one that touches the soul and makes you feel the most intense emotion possible.(that's paraphrased. I'll find the quote and post it later)
So, if poetry touches someone else deeply, or even if it touches the author deeply, it is good. Poetry is therapy for the soul.
Love Always,
Laurel
To Blue Sky to Your Clouds ~
A good poem.... Hmmmm....
1. One that makes you think or better yet.... one that clears up confusion in your head. OR
2. One that requires NO thinking whatsoever and does all the thinking for you.... so you can sit back relax and enjoy. OR
MY FAVORITE TYPE
3. That takes you on an effortless journey... a poem that flows like a river.... like a waltz ... where your feet never touch the ground. OR
4. A poem that arouses you in some way..... arouses your senses, your passions, your lust, etc.
5. A poem that moves you to action.... Go get em.. ! ! !
6. And last , but maybe not least.... When a writing lifts you, like an airborne bubble, floating you into the realms of your imagination, where you can taste, and touch, and feel, and see.... what the writer is saying... almost like you are there.... feeling their pain... tasting their chocolate pudding, feeling the oceans spray, smelling the fishy air.... Your blood rushing to their angry words....
and after they have taken you into their world, and floated you around for awhile.... where you have forgotten who you are ... and where you are..... then they effortlessly.... and slowly..... bring you back down.... setting you gently but firmly back on the ground..... and you can feel the peace....
These are some of what I consider to be good poems, prose, short stories and great writing....
~ Harem ~
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Elaina~ I loved 'I Thought'...I have many letters unsent, myself...Most of them were torn up into little peices, shoved in a trash can, because they can never be sent...There would be no point...Anywho, good poem...SMILE.
Love and moonbeams, Ali
I don't think "touching someone deeply" is a measure of good poetry or art in general. The cheesiest, shmaltziest stuff can make people weep. It's not such a big trick.
I think the trick is to engage the intellect, not just the heart.
I'm not too crazy about Emily Dickinson for that matter. I remember a high school textbook that put her original version of a poem side-by-side with the editor's revision, and honestly I liked the editor's better.
Since we're bringing up how to write poetry by example, my vote for best ever goes to Jack Gilbert. http://www.loveblender.com/1997september/review.html for my review of his stuff, with two examples. Hits the mind as well as the heart.
~Blue Sky~
A good poem has soul. It comes from the heart. It doesn't even have to touch someone else deeply. It has to be from deep inside of you. Or that is at least what I feel about it. I could be totally wrong! Who really knows!!!
All the Joy in the World!
Du'Doll
Thank you everyone, who has repsonded to my question. I've just been having so many people stuff me full of facts, I was curious to know what other writers thought.
Ali~ Thank you, no one reads my work much anymore, and I'm glad to see I still have so rhyme and reason left. Thank you.
xoxo
Elaina
Ali, Thank you. I don't see it as a poem. One day I just found myself sitting down at the keyboard typing. Typing an analogy on a topic (picnic) that I had not even given any thought to prior. I have personally felt this has been a roller coaster ride.
My heart is broken and it took my soul with it.
cnewlife~ (((HUGS)))...I am sorry that your heart is broken...I know that broken bones take months to heal, but a heart...a heart can take a lifetime...Writing is a good way to make you feel better...to get things out...Keep writing, It'll help! Love and dreams, Ali
So I just started getting through the submissions for May. Thinking about what I think makes good poetry.
Here's something I'm going to throw out there: sometimes it seems like too many poems are in the First Person ("I, I, I") or Third Person ("You you you"). I think for poetry to achieve art it has to sound a more universal theme. Usually. There are exceptions.
See, I believe in a multiple-intelligences-theory for art. Just like we can say you can't have a single number to summarize how smart someone is but we need to think about their emotional intelligence, their spatial intelligence, their word intelligence, etc, literature works on a lot of levels as well. There's how well it expresses what you feel, how well it expresses some part of the human condition, or sometimes it's important just where it came from, like for some historical reason. For instance I took an "the early african-american novel" class in college. Now, some of these novels are, measured with the traditinal literary yardstick , very problematic... derivative of other works, cliched, overly sappy, unbeleivable, badly dialogued, etc. But even if they were pure garbage (which they weren't) they would still be important because of the historical situation they came from. And it seems like a lot (maybe even too much) of the loveblender's works are like that. They're important as a method of communicating what's on the author's mind or in their heart, but don't push beyond that mood expression. Those are the ones that generally won't be a front page pick.
I don't want to advance this as any kind of final word on "what makes a good poem"-- and I'm definately not going to lay down the law on what the blender accepts, but I want to put it out there.
To Ali ~
Wow.... you go girl... it was great.... Made me think... So much honesty and truth, you faced... shared with your reader... WOW... and you also picked me up and floated me... as your words flowed .... smooth as a gravy sandwich.... giggle... All kidding aside... Your words and the arrangement was well orchestrated.... BRAVO ! ! !
I want more.... more.... more..... ! ! !
~Harem~
To Ali ~
Wow.... you go girl...
???
it was great.... Made me think... So much honesty and truth, you faced... shared with your reader... WOW... and you also picked me up and floated me... as your words flowed .... smooth as a gravy sandwich.... giggle... All kidding aside... Your words and the arrangement was well orchestrated.... BRAVO ! ! !
I want more.... more.... more..... ! ! !
~Harem~
Apologies... I don't know how it got out there twice...
And the first time, it did not show the title that I pasted.
Oh well, sorry.
I was commenting on Ali's new work called "???" which I really liked a lot ! ! !....
~Harem~
..
Blue
(actually, after writing this, I came back to think...it's just comments, but the person with the long name with something about Blue in it started the discussion, so...anyway)
Good poetry...obviously it's different things to different people...because I like poetry if it uses words in a new way... It's hard for me to read a poem if I can guess what the next line will be, just because of the obvious rhyme (this doesn't always pertain to poetry as much as it does lyrics)
However, I don't think that there is such a thing as "bad" poetry unless (and this is a big, hazy unless) unless the author did not mean what they wrote. I feel that as long as it came from deep inside, and it's real...it's poetry and it's good
Some people are just better at using good wordings to express the things they expose.
Humans write poetry because they need to express things, and I sorta disagree with Kirk, in that, I don't think it matters if you use "I" or "You" because either way, the idea is out there, and if the reader can't get past the idea of the I and You, then that is their fault for not being a conscientious reader.
Lots of people think that poetry is this or poetry is that, but poetry is anything...in my opinion, at least....
I think that simple conversations can be poetry...Comments left on message boards...thoughts that never come out of your head...EVERYTHING is poetry...life is "poetry in motion", the person who said that didn't just say it for their health...they said it cause it is true...
The word poetry is just that, a word that we use to symbolize a whole vast amount of things. We name things so that we can make them tangible. Curse words are just letters strung together to embody anger. Even the word "god" is just a word to give us something to hold on to, so that we can say what we believe in. (just to make clear, though, I believe in the God with the capital G...just...felt guilty for... oh nevermind)
anyway...
I'm beginning to ramble.
One thing though that I would like to make clear about how I feel about poetry, though....as I said, all "real" poetry (poetry written from the heart) is good, BUT...life-altering poetry (call it better than good or just life-altering) is a totally different story
If after reading a poem, you want to read it again and again because of how awesome (being the only word useable) it is...and you begin to ponder how you feel towards that aspect of life that the poem speculates on...THAT is a life-altering poem
So in conclusion, I have no clue...but that's just how I feel today...Tomorrow, I might just like the crap the Backstreet Boys sing...lol...but... probably not (never say never)
Blue Sky to Your Clouds (what a cool name!)-
What constitutes good poetry (to any one individual) is this, as I'm willing to defend by any means necessary (jokingly!):
It's any group of words that adsorbs to you, that becomes unfixably unforgettable.
It sometimes takes years to figure out which bits in life are truly poetic.
The rest is just so much cotton candy...
what makes good poetry?...probably nothing more than the existence of bad poetry
if it could conceivably be in a hallmark card, or a long distance phone commercial, it's mediocre...that's my opinion...and it's my watered-down opinion at that
lots of poetry just plays off of predefined stereotypes or generalities that people don't have to think too hard about...which is fine if that's what you want to read, but i get bored with it...i also think that woody allen has written some of the best romantic comedies ever, but he's not often regarded as a romantic writer
gup