From: <a href="/blend/av.cgi?id=1317">Thoughtfull</a><BR>
Date: 1 March 2005<P>

Here is a question I need some seriously examined feedback on...why is it important we get married?  Why is it the peak of the love actualization pyramid?  If you have had a negative experience with marriage - would you do it again and why?  Why is the marriage important to you personally...and if it is not...why not?  If Kirk does not object we could answer this on the board or if it takes up too much space please email [email-masked].  I entered into this debate with my significant other last night...and upon examination I need some tangible understanding of the matter.  Plus it will generate some interesting debate I am sure...<BR>
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Megs
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From: <a href="/blend/av.cgi?id=20">distant moon</a><BR>
Date: 1 March 2005<P>

Ali!  Your poem <a href="/blend/wv.cgi?id=2005.03.01.07.26.25425">Telling Hands</a> was AWESOME!  I loved it!  Your ability to amaze me never ceases!
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From: <a href="/blend/av.cgi?id=74">Echolocation</a><BR>
Date: 1 March 2005<P>

Thoughtfull -- excellent question!  I'll start with one reason, and the *least* romantic reason at that LOL!!  <BR>
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People get married in order to participate in a state sanctioned and defined relationship that provides a legal framework for assets and children.  Your social security (if you die), your health insurance (if you have any), some portion of your assets (e.g. half if you're in California), citizenship status, child support -- all these become things you share and can inherit, without filing any paperwork or doing any work other than just getting married.  It's a nice shortcut to a whole package of legal benefits.<BR>
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This of course was for many many years the main reason many people married: to ensure successful transition of assets, be it a kingdom, a title, money, property, whatever.<BR>
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This reason doesn't apply so much anymore now, though it may still be a concern for really really rich people (or royalty!).  It's also a pretty boring reason LOL!!  I look forward to hearing lots more better reasons -- and I will be most interested to see how many of them are still applicable these days...what if we find that nearly all of the reasons are no longer valid, what then???  (Was that by any chance the root of your discussion -- that there's not really any reason to get married any more?)
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From: <a href="/blend/av.cgi?id=10">Galadrial</a><BR>
Date: 1 March 2005<P>

Echo is right on...<BR>
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I think people marry expecting it will make them feel secure...chosen, if you will. But if you are not already there, it doesn't help. The vows, the promises you speak in a day have to be supported by a life time of effort.<BR>
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It's easy to get married.<BR>
But it's work to STAY married.<BR>
They don't mention that in the pretty cards, and i am not sure anyone is prepared for the effort it involves.<BR>
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There are stupid reasons to marry...and even though the track record sucks, I don't count love as one of them.<BR>
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I guess it helps if both people are expecting the same things of it. But if one is thinking "companion", and other is thinking "passion", you got trouble in River City...
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From: <a href="/blend/av.cgi?id=8">Ali</a><BR>
Date: 1 March 2005<P>

My dear Distant~<BR>
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Thank you ever so kindly!  You are such a sweetheart!  :)  I hope that you're doing well! *smile*<BR>
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Lov and dreaming grace, Ali
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From: <a href="/blend/av.cgi?id=1317">Thoughtfull</a><BR>
Date: 1 March 2005<P>

The debate started with the idea that if you have the "ideal" relationship that marriage should be unnecessary.  It is a socialized device that guarantees people exactly what you said Echo...security.  I have moved to Florida to be with the one I intend to be with forever...my mental and emotional commitment is equivalent to that of a marriage but yet I still want to get married in the next couple of years.  He wanted me to qualify why...6 and a half pages of analysis later I still can't justify it to my own logical satisfaction (darn it!!!)  So...it seemed like a worthy idea to explore.  Why (for ourselves) do we desire a marriage?
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From: <a href="/blend/av.cgi?id=1189">darwin</a><BR>
Date: 1 March 2005<P>

The reason I got married, not for the legalities (though they are nice perks sometimes, i.e. taxes!)but because I loved my husband.  And I am an expressive person, and so is he so we decided that we wanted to make a vow to each other in front of friends and family.  We didn't do the typical wedding, in a church, lots of bridesmaid and big flashy reception.  We just did a quiet affair in the backyard of my  uncle on a summer day.  It was beautiful.  I think if two people love each other, then inevitably there comes a point where you want to express that publicly.  At least that is how it was for us, and as Gala said marriage is work...indeed.  But if it's with the right person, the work it takes doesn't feel like work, it just means that you want to work toward something, that you want to somehow better yourself for that person, because you know that they are doing it for you too.  <BR>
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and marriage is ultimately about choice.  and what makes marriage work is definitely knowing that you want your paths to intersect and grow together, and you will make choices along the way too.  whether you are attracted to someone else, you choose to act.  but the choices you make affect your partner and now you have that to take in mind.  <BR>
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that's about all i have for now. 
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From: <a href="/blend/av.cgi?id=268">Misti</a><BR>
Date: 1 March 2005<P>

Years ago I was a hardcore romantic. All I wanted was to marry a guy I was crazy in love with and have four kids and stay at home and write. Didn't work out that way. The first guy I "married" was a con artist who was still married to his estranged wife. We said our vows in his Ford Taurus at a drive-up window in Vegas. It was as tacky and retarded as it sounds. I truly loved the guy or thought I did. I was in denial. Then as most of you know I married Chris. I can only speak for myself but I think that we both knew it was a bad idea because we fought constantly, even on the day we got married and on our honeymoon. Again...denial. <BR>
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Today I became officially "domesticated" with my boyfriend, Michael. We filled out these forms and got them notarized at his bank so that I can get on his medical insurance. The forms are for domestic partners which makes me think they were created for gay couples, which is cool. I strongly believe that gays should have the same benefits as straights and I think it's ridiculous that in 2005 it's even a question. <BR>
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So to answer the question, what's the point of marriage? Ideally, marriage is more binding than cohabitation. It's the strongest commitment you can make to another human being. I can only speak for myself. I'm marrying Michael because I love him and am dedicated to making his happiness and well-being top priority. His struggles are my struggles, his triumphs are my triumphs and vice versa. I want to have children with him. I know there are couples who stay together for decades without the certificate saying they are married. If that works for them, fine. I want the vows and the paperwork and the ring and the cake, all the symbols that are empty on their own but beautiful beyond description when there is true love behind them.
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From: <a href="/blend/av.cgi?id=1317">Thoughtfull</a><BR>
Date: 1 March 2005<P>

Misti- Your last point expressed what I was trying to say but more concisely (mind if I borrow it for my debate?  *grin*)  <BR>
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This is good stuff...I knew the best place to come for marriage debate material would be the Board!!
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From: <a href="/blend/av.cgi?id=74">Echolocation</a><BR>
Date: 1 March 2002<P>

This seems a relevant time to resurrect one of my past posts, <a href="/blend/wv.cgi?id=2002.09.08.18.17.26432">Excerpt from "Gaudy Night"</a>.<BR>
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There's a lot to be said for a public, formal and deliberate declaration of commitment.  Whether that needs to be recognized by the state and called "marriage" is another question.  If the person making said vows is honest and true and means them in his or her heart, I'm not sure that the state's imprimatur is required; by the same token, if the person making said vows does not truly mean them, no state sanction is going to be able to ensure s/he keeps them.  <BR>
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They say that if you're planning to, for example, quit smoking, the first thing you should do is tell EVERYONE you know; that way if you're tempted to grab a smoke, you'll reconsider since everyone now knows you said you wouldn't.  There's something akin to that behind the tradition of standing up before friends and family; when things get rough you remember, "Damn it, I said I would do this and come hell or high water I will make this work!!" and perhaps you try a little harder because of that promise.  <BR>
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Regarding all the traditions ring rice veil etc -- it's curious how many of those have non-Christian origins and yet it's the Christian conservatives who want to "protect" marriage.  As several people have said: it's the love and commitment behind them that give them meaning; otherwise they're no more than empty gestures.  <BR>
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Next time I do it will be something really simple like a handfasting with none of this God nonsense.
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From: <a href="/blend/av.cgi?id=74">Echolocation</a><BR>
Date: 1 March 2005<P>

i'm just him -- <a href="/blend/wv.cgi?id=2005.03.01.15.13.21817">can't let her go</a> -- excellent closing lines:<BR>
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but she'll come back<BR>
because they serve good food at my funerals<BR>
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